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listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

"your cousin was outed as SN, did that mean anything to you and your family?"

"for us we'd always known that Craig was the Chief Engineer and person who did BitCoin and blockchain technology. We'd known for years that Craig was the person that was fundamentally behind all of it... but, had never mentioned Satoshi. When Craig was outed the first thing was.. at least everyone else knows now.. that's like really cool... everyone will probably think that that's a great thing and then there was all this talk about Satoshi and stuff.. Satoshi doesn't mean anything to me, it's just a nic or a codename people use to publish stuff. Everyone on the internet who's a bit of a geek has monikers and code names that they publish stuff under or that they write under... or do anything like that.. for me it's just Craig... it still is Craig, he's not Satoshi he's Craig. And, Craig is the one that has been doing all of this stuff and if he chose to publish papers and code and things like that under a nic or a codename... that's something heaps of us do in the tech community it's quite normal. I don't know why everyone's upset about him calling himself Satoshi, he could be Bob." $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

"what were you actually doing with that computer?"

"to us we were just running a computer that Craig was testing and running..."
"I now ask for your understanding at that point in time why you were actually doing it"

"being a tech family you're always playing around and doing stuff and you were always testing stuff and we'd always helped each other out by testing and running stuff. For us, we didn't know that it was something that was going to be worth something now. Even back then bitcoin wasn't particularly worth anything, we didn't know it was bitcoin, it was just a validation script that was running for Craig.. and testing and authorising transactions..."

"did you actually mine BitCoin on that computer?"

"yes, so the term mining was still foreign to us at that point in time, but mining is what the application was doing for that whole period of time."

"when did you learn that this is what you were actually doing?"

"so that was after we left the farm in 2011... a couple of years later we had dinner with Craig in Melbourne, it was the first time we met Ramona. He was introducing Ramona and the kids to us... they came to Melbourne were living in NSW at the time... myself, my wife, my kids, both of my parents and Craig, Ramona and their kids... we had a dinner at SkyHigh MtDandenong, a nice restaurant that looks over the city. Craig asked if we still had the computer that we'd been using... at which point in time my dad said no, we threw it in the Skip big metal rubbish bins when we were clearing out the farm.. it wasn't of any value to us.. the hardware was already a few years old and my Dad wanted to buy a new computer. That was a good excuse to chuck everything.. to which Craig said you know you might have kept it it might be worth some money... we had a bit of a chat about that what do you mean it's worth money, computer's a few years old, it's not really worth anything... a couple of years after you have it... well that program you were running was mining bitcoin the whole time. We said, yes, well, what does that mean.. because we still had no idea what it was.. he said well each of those processes that were running you earn a little bit of bitcoin, a bit of money. We're said it's still not worth anything... he said, look if BitCoin gets to $800, the stuff that he's got he said he'd be a billionaire if it got to $800... I said nah yeah, well, sure, whatever.. crazy fanciful sort of stuff... he said yeah like that time that you were running your computer 325,000 transactions or validations.. whatever they are.... I'm still not into bitcoin... whatever the authorisation thing is..."

"hang on a moment, did Craig actually calculate how many bitcoins you had actually mined on that computer?"

"yeah, you know... people like Craig their brains are sort of like computers a little bit... so he sort of like did a quick calculation and sort of said it was probably this many..."

"how many BitCoins?"

"he said with that amount of transactions and the time it was running it was about 6500 BitCoin"

"how many verifications?"

"325,000 which still doesn't mean a great deal to me. At that point in time 6500 BitCoin was still pretty much nothing, I don't know if was like a couple of hundred bucks or $500, it wasn't worth going and trying to find a computer that was put into landfill a couple of years ago." $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

Granath's attorney asks a few questions:

"you were asked whether or not Craig shared the bitcoin white paper with you early on... are you familiar with the white paper?"

"no I haven't read it"

"so you would have no idea what the white paper looks like?"

"so a white paper is...."

"I'm talking about the BitCoin white paper"

"apart from the heading?"

"and then you said that the computer you talked about it was running until the end of 2011, is that correct?"

"yes my parents left the property just before the end of 2011... the date they pulled that plug before then I don't particularly know. It was running on a 24/7 UPS full time not turning off, just going.."

"and that was the time when the computer was also thrown out, correct?"

"yes, the farm was cleared out and all the stuff that wasn't wanted went out to the skip and landfill"

"and then you said a few years later you had a dinner with Craig? 2013?"

"correct"

"you said when Craig was outed as SN you had known for years, would that be a reference to 2013?"

"that's ongoing conversations, family catchups, sharing of information on line, sharing the original concept.. documents... that was just part of who we were as a family."

"I'm asking that you said when Craig was outed as SN you had known for years that Craig had been Satoshi"

"we knew for years that Craig was the creator of Blockchain and BitCoin."

"would that be a reference back to the dinner... from the dinner in 2013?"

"no, I'm saying that that is across all of that period of time from the first time he shared that information, and his work.. including the dinner."

"understood"

Judge: "there appears to be no more questions from you is there anything you would like to add?"

"no thank you". $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

(Craig's face as Max speaks, shows there's a strong connection to these early days)

DrW's attorney: "after college/high school whatever you call it, where did you move on?"

"When I finished highschool I started uni then, after the first year I applied to Royal Military College Duntroon, trained to be an army officer was there for a bit over 2 years. Graduated with as a lieutenant with an associate diploma in personnel administration ... from which I then started my military career."

"which areas did you work in within the military?"

"first, signals corp... basically the same area my grandfather was working during the second world war... which today you would think signals corp is telecommunications internet computers that type of thing... back in my grandfather's day obviously they didn't have that so it was basically around radio telecommunications and electronics and so forth. So I started off in that and the areas where I spent the most time in signals was the defence intelligence secure communications at the Watsonia which was the HQ for signal corp in Aus, Nth of Melbourne, and also at defence centre Melbourne. I was then in ordinance corp primarily in data and logistics... and also finance and fleet control when I was there." $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

"did he ever share with you the bitcoin white paper?"

"I can't remember that there was anything specifically that was called BitCoin white paper, bitcoin wasn't a thing back then... white papers in my line wasn't a particular thing.. definitely with what is now referred to as the Bitcoin Whitepaper, there were definitely documents that were shared with me that were talking about those types of technologies and the stuff that Craig had been working on for Lasseters. In my mind it was like an iteration on the onlilne tokenisation and financial trade, being able to track it, authorise it and validate transactions and so forth... there was definite papers that were talking about that. In my mind it was just iteration after iteration after iteration of tech and software that he'd been working on before hand.. Yeah but as it turns out it was stuff related to the BitCoin whitepaper."

"you lived your own father Don Lynam, how close was that?

"two neighbouring properties, they were farm, not like a house right next door... two neighbouring properties his house was about 500meters or so away from our house building and property. We were on the same phone exchange, same internet connections... we were both working in the flower business on the farms. Whilst we didn't have giant big discussions and family dinners with each other every day because we lived in separate houses we would see each other almost every day and chat. He did some of the accounts and stuff like that for me."

"did you interact with your father regarding the computers in his house?"

"yes. I was not just coding I was more the expert on the hardware side of things. When we needed to get computers and upgrade and stuff like that... I was the one who was generally working out what the actual specs for the computers were and all that sort of stuff. My biggest thing with my Dad was controlling him and saying stop spending more money on more tech.. it only needs to be a certain size. Yeah, we're talking about techy stuff, like even on the farm there was greenhouses with computers controlling the greenhouses worth tens of thousands of dollars that we worked on as well."

"Did Craig ask you for any favours that period?"

"apart from just talking to each other and providing feedback sharing ideas and so forth... conversations between each other... there was a time during late 2008 where Craig had some code that he wanted us to test... and as is still done today you stick it on different computers to be able to see if it'll work on that computer and you need to make sure that the communications work and that even though you have it working on your local laptop or local computer or something you need to make sure it works on someone elses as well... so that seemed like a normal thing to do. The first thought was we could stick it on we had a giant big dual quadcore Xeon server that we were running the ecommerce stuff from on my property... so when Craig talked to my Dad about running the application... my Dad thought his computer probably wasn't big enough so he said could we run it on the big server that we had on the farm. My concern was that well that was running the business I didn't want to stick some testing unknown bit of code on my computer that's running the business... I said why can't he do it on his.. wasn't quite up to spec either so we souped up. first checked with Craig it would be OK to spend a bit of time souping up my Dad's computer putting extra RAM in getting a UPS Uninterupted Power Supply so it'd run 24/7 and over the next couple of weeks or so we went and put a whole heap of extra stuff in my Dad's computer and souped it up and got it ready and then after that point in time we followed whatever Craig's instructions were to install it and get it running. So that started, kept running we got a few updates, iterations, fixing bits and pieces here and there.. apart from that it was just sitting there running on the computer."

"for how long did that operation go on?"

"that went on basically 'til we left the farm. We had to wind up the flower business following trade being affected by the GST substantially, the global financial crisis and so that badly affected because we were highly focussed on high end export, and high end export optional purchases went downhill pretty quick. We wound up the business and then we left our property mid 2011 next door to my dad... my dad had the computer going 'til just before Christmas 2011 when he left his business." $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

"how much contact did you have with your cousin during the 90's and early naughties?"

ML: "obviously we'd finished school so I wasn't visiting during school holidays, we didn't have as much face to face time, but the internet became available and we were computer geeks,... we talked on the internet... weprobably talked more electronically than when we were kids because it was very easy, got up started chatting."

"what were Craig's interests in these years, what did you discuss during these years?"

"I was obviously involved in defence so I couldn't talk about what I was doing anyway... then I got into ecommerce after I retired from the defence force... most of my stuff was around online web based technologies... with a focus around ecommerce type of thing. The stuff that Craig was doing, Craig had been continuing on from his hacking past as well and was contracted as a security expert and a white hat hacker to help improve different companies' and organisations' security protocols toward the internet and so forth... and from there started working with I believe Lasseters Casino in NT, what he was doing there was around being able to convert international money of multiple currencies into a single token, just like a plastic gambling token thing you have in a casino but he'd do it electronically and that enabled people all over the world regardless of currency to be able to gamble on line and do whatever they needed... track all of those transactions in the gambling and so forth, then at the time they'd be able to verify all of that and withdraw their money in whatever the local currency was."

"What line of business were you in, you'd left the military by then?" $osg

listening to MaxLynam on the stand in Norway GranathVsSatoshi

"you'd left the military by then?"

"yes, I'd left the military, bought a farm with my parents... grew that up, knew nothing about farming or anything... built a website because that's what you do when you're a techy person and as one of the very early stage people with a website it grew very very quickly so the business started exporting all over the world, had a lot of stuff going into Dubai lot of import/export"

"exporting what?"

"cut flowers, cut flowers for the cut flower trade... we competed very favourably at the high end of the market both all around Aus and in the MiddleEast."

"so you were into ecommerce at a very early stage then?"

"yeah the first ecommerce website we had was before there was even really databases available on the internet... I remember when the database, when we could interface with a database with a website it was like wooohooo I've got superpowers sort of thing. We utilised some of the early buggy ecommerce OpenSource software that was out there and moved on to some of the really big OS ecommerce software that is still used today."

"did Craig share any of his ideas with you in writing?"

"as i said it was very easy to chat with each other through online chat channels and tools and so forth... anything that we discussed or talked about was shared electronically, it wasn't like on a piece of paper that we were scribbling on or anything like that. It was more like bursts of conversations with Craig and myself, we wouldn't talk for a number of months and then we'd talk a fair bit for two three months then it would drop off again... all along the stage through the 90's and naughties and still nowadays we still chat around and share things electronically. Some of the stuff Craig shared was at times looking for specific type of coder to be able to do certain types of code, pretty hardcore sort of code compared to what I was using for OS ecommerce type of stuff.

Apart from that, he'd also share concepts and not so much technical specifications, concepts, and ideas and theories he was working on and so that was shared to be able to get feedback whether that was thought to be a good idea or whether there was input."

"Did he ever share the white paper?"
$osg